Vince Gilligan’s Pluribus reached new lows in its eighth episode, delivering 50 minutes of television where the only notable event is a gratuitous lesbian sex scene between the protagonist and an alien avatar.
I think this critique is missing the level the show is actually operating on.
The “lesbian romance” reading treats a surface detail as the point. It isn’t.
Zosia and Carol’s intimacy isn’t about sexuality. It’s about persuasion, vulnerability and how systems use closeness to dissolve resistance. Calling it “woke romance” flattens the scene’s real function.
Pluribus is quality TV in the classic sense. It rewards viewers who read between the lines. It uses ambiguity as narrative tension, not as filler. What looks “slow” is actually the system tightening - not through force, but through comfort.
That’s what makes it unsettling.
Happy to discuss, but dismissing this as “woke” flattens a much more interesting and much more dangerous
Agree - calling it "woke romance" or "LGBTQ propaganda" is very shallow. This is a story about grief. Her relationship with Zosia actually takes it to a higher level where it's not about the physical body but the individual inhabiting the body - and persuasion and manipulation. The world is unfolding as quickly and as slowly as Carol can absorb and accept. I appreciate the deliberate slowness and tedium of this new world.
this is a good point. it is not a lesbian relationship. Because Zosia is not a woman, she is part of the borg. underlying this story is the fact that the plan was to take over earth. in episode 1 nobody was being democratic or persuading, they spread the virus purposefully, not knowing there would be immune people. So a woman who is a lesbian, might be manipulated by offering her her ideal woman, so they did.
I am aware that sometimes conservatives need to understand more.
If you're arguing that Pluribus is like Hope and Grace in that it is an attempt by the System of Wickedness to gently crush those who resist sexual deviance, I could agree. But I doubt that is your point.
I rather suspect this is the version of 'if you only read the book you'd see its awesome' and then when some sucker reads the book, and goes ick, you just walk off and refuse to engage.
Fair question. I’ll answer it directly. It’s dangerous because dissent disappears without being banned.
When systems work too well, people stop resisting not out of fear, but because resistance becomes slow, lonely and pointless.
The hive is a metaphor for any system (including AI) that makes dissent inefficient rather than forbidden. It quietly removes the need to think independently.
That’s the threat the series is exploring.
Not “wokeness.” Not romance.
But control without coercion.
Control without coercion means you’re never forced to comply.
You’re simply guided toward the same choices as everyone else
—> because they’re easier, safer and more efficient.
Like it or not, in my opinion that’s the idea at work here.
You are in the home of Dissent. Should women have the right to vote? No.
No need to worry about control without coercion as Trump lost part of his ear, Charlie Kirk his life. We are well into the Steel Fist portion of the program.
You misunderstand. Wokeness is a threat. Doubtless this series is trying to nudge people, to do control without coercion, to get people to be Woke.
Now, like She Hulk, its possible this series is a backhanded demo of liberal persuasion methods as evil. She Hulk was a demo of how a certain category of insanely entitled women see their lives. Unlike many of my conservative brethren, I enjoyed it. Not because I agreed with the character, but as an insight into their weird world. Ironheart had the same thing for a different group. I'm still not sure if this was the intended goal or if its just reality leaking through.
That comparison to X-Files really landed for me. Modern streaming somehow convinced everyone that stretching 44 minutes of plot across nine hours equals prestige, when really it just means viewers spend most episodes waiting for someting to actually happen. I've noticed this with so many Apple TV+ shows where the production quality is insane but the story moves at a crawl.
"The production team was told to “go bigger” with their work, focusing on ambitious shots and elaborate set pieces. The result is a show that looks expensive but feels empty. The technical craftsmanship is impressive—the cinematography is beautiful, the production design is meticulous, and the visual effects are seamless. But none of that matters when the story doesn’t go anywhere, and the characters don’t do anything."
Are you sure that Apple is behind this show and not Ubisoft?
I always found Rhea Seehorn to have a sexy MILFyness to her in Better Call Saul and because of that, this series initially drew my attention. Based on the few negative reviews I've heard or read so far (from similarly minded people), it's obvious that this crap is not for me. And, as mentioned, Apple just can't stay away from gay shit. It's so boring now.
2) Carol was depicted as lesbian from the beginning. There’s no change-up here.
3) Can’t you see that this has all been about how she accedes to her assimilation? Which is why we’re waiting for the guy from South America to show up and kick some sense back into her.
I think this critique is missing the level the show is actually operating on.
The “lesbian romance” reading treats a surface detail as the point. It isn’t.
Zosia and Carol’s intimacy isn’t about sexuality. It’s about persuasion, vulnerability and how systems use closeness to dissolve resistance. Calling it “woke romance” flattens the scene’s real function.
Pluribus is quality TV in the classic sense. It rewards viewers who read between the lines. It uses ambiguity as narrative tension, not as filler. What looks “slow” is actually the system tightening - not through force, but through comfort.
That’s what makes it unsettling.
Happy to discuss, but dismissing this as “woke” flattens a much more interesting and much more dangerous
—> idea the show is exploring.
Agree - calling it "woke romance" or "LGBTQ propaganda" is very shallow. This is a story about grief. Her relationship with Zosia actually takes it to a higher level where it's not about the physical body but the individual inhabiting the body - and persuasion and manipulation. The world is unfolding as quickly and as slowly as Carol can absorb and accept. I appreciate the deliberate slowness and tedium of this new world.
“Must defend show I like”. That is you, with that long comment.
Analysis isn’t the same as defense.
I’m talking about an idea, not asking anyone to like the show.
Well there are a ton of gay boring shows just for you.
this is a good point. it is not a lesbian relationship. Because Zosia is not a woman, she is part of the borg. underlying this story is the fact that the plan was to take over earth. in episode 1 nobody was being democratic or persuading, they spread the virus purposefully, not knowing there would be immune people. So a woman who is a lesbian, might be manipulated by offering her her ideal woman, so they did.
I have not, nor do I plan to watch it.
I am aware that sometimes conservatives need to understand more.
If you're arguing that Pluribus is like Hope and Grace in that it is an attempt by the System of Wickedness to gently crush those who resist sexual deviance, I could agree. But I doubt that is your point.
I rather suspect this is the version of 'if you only read the book you'd see its awesome' and then when some sucker reads the book, and goes ick, you just walk off and refuse to engage.
So, in short, what is the dangerous idea?
Fair question. I’ll answer it directly. It’s dangerous because dissent disappears without being banned.
When systems work too well, people stop resisting not out of fear, but because resistance becomes slow, lonely and pointless.
The hive is a metaphor for any system (including AI) that makes dissent inefficient rather than forbidden. It quietly removes the need to think independently.
That’s the threat the series is exploring.
Not “wokeness.” Not romance.
But control without coercion.
Control without coercion means you’re never forced to comply.
You’re simply guided toward the same choices as everyone else
—> because they’re easier, safer and more efficient.
Like it or not, in my opinion that’s the idea at work here.
You are in the home of Dissent. Should women have the right to vote? No.
No need to worry about control without coercion as Trump lost part of his ear, Charlie Kirk his life. We are well into the Steel Fist portion of the program.
You misunderstand. Wokeness is a threat. Doubtless this series is trying to nudge people, to do control without coercion, to get people to be Woke.
Now, like She Hulk, its possible this series is a backhanded demo of liberal persuasion methods as evil. She Hulk was a demo of how a certain category of insanely entitled women see their lives. Unlike many of my conservative brethren, I enjoyed it. Not because I agreed with the character, but as an insight into their weird world. Ironheart had the same thing for a different group. I'm still not sure if this was the intended goal or if its just reality leaking through.
That comparison to X-Files really landed for me. Modern streaming somehow convinced everyone that stretching 44 minutes of plot across nine hours equals prestige, when really it just means viewers spend most episodes waiting for someting to actually happen. I've noticed this with so many Apple TV+ shows where the production quality is insane but the story moves at a crawl.
"The production team was told to “go bigger” with their work, focusing on ambitious shots and elaborate set pieces. The result is a show that looks expensive but feels empty. The technical craftsmanship is impressive—the cinematography is beautiful, the production design is meticulous, and the visual effects are seamless. But none of that matters when the story doesn’t go anywhere, and the characters don’t do anything."
Are you sure that Apple is behind this show and not Ubisoft?
I always found Rhea Seehorn to have a sexy MILFyness to her in Better Call Saul and because of that, this series initially drew my attention. Based on the few negative reviews I've heard or read so far (from similarly minded people), it's obvious that this crap is not for me. And, as mentioned, Apple just can't stay away from gay shit. It's so boring now.
Why is it named pluribus, Latin for “of many” when it’s made for so few?
"We learn almost nothing about the pluribus, why it’s happening, or what Carol can do about it"
I find it ironic you use the royal " We" and don't get it..
1) Who’s Molly?
2) Carol was depicted as lesbian from the beginning. There’s no change-up here.
3) Can’t you see that this has all been about how she accedes to her assimilation? Which is why we’re waiting for the guy from South America to show up and kick some sense back into her.
4) Agreed, too drawn-out.
Yep, Tim Cook needs to be fired.